Culture and politics forum

Carabao

  • MADMAC

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    I have now been to two Carabao concerts since I have lived here. If you happen to be in a city where he's playing, the show is well worth the take. Carabao is sort of the Bruce Springsteen of Thailand, sings about a lot of social issues, has been around forever...

    #1 Posted: 22/6/2009 - 14:35

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  • sayadian

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    Wow, Carabao still going! 'Made in Thailand' was about 1983 I think.How about Bird.He still about? 'sabai sabai'

    #2 Posted: 22/6/2009 - 15:20

  • MADMAC

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    I haven't seen Bird on tour. But Carabao is still going strong. Been playiung well over 30 years now. Great band and written a lot of quality music. I've been to two concerts in the last 18 months and both were very good shows.

    #3 Posted: 22/6/2009 - 22:31

  • Thaiman

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    When I first met my wife in 1986 I went to Singburi with her and Carabao was playing just over the back fence.Stupid me did'nt go though as I was probably not quite into the Thai thing then.See him a bit on the Thai Global Network TV channel.'Made in Thailand' was a great song.

    #4 Posted: 23/6/2009 - 15:29

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    Welcome to Thailand is another favorite of mine... but he's got several other songs that are just really good music. I use songs to help me learn the language, it's fun.

    #5 Posted: 23/6/2009 - 18:11

  • NormLNorma

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    Carabao - Greatest band in the world - Ever. And Yes, they still today are going strong. I've known them since the mid 80's and have never stopped loving almost everything they do. I too have used their songs to learn Thai. But, be careful of the slang and it's not always Bangkok Thai. Have you checked their website? There's a group on Facebook for them too with hundreds of members. As well as several other sites by fans from all over the world.

    #6 Posted: 25/1/2010 - 15:04

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    OK, I like Carabao, but understanding evaluating bands is very subjective, I would say they are behind the Beatles, The Stones, and simply not comparable to other genres like hip hop, R&B, classics, etc.

    I think Carabao compares favorably with Bruce Springsteen. But as prolific as Carabao is, Springsteen is more so.

    #7 Posted: 26/1/2010 - 16:39

  • somtam2000

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    I saw them once in Lumpini Park a few years ago - agree with Madmac - excellent.

    #8 Posted: 27/1/2010 - 08:59

  • NormLNorma

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    Of course music is subjective as is any art form. Politics and philosophy too is really only one Man's opinion also.
    Sorry, I don't know much about Bruce Springsteen and hip hop is not music so can't comment on that. I have only listened to Carabao for the past 25+ years and don't care to hear anything else. Well, Beethoven, Wagner and other classical stuff and jazz but not much else and not very often. Only Carabao .... forever! : )

    #9 Posted: 27/1/2010 - 12:05

  • MADMAC

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    "Sorry, I don't know much about Bruce Springsteen and hip hop is not music so can't comment on that."

    Seniorita
    If you listen to Springsteen you will find his music is remarkably similar to Carabao in terms of style and substance. Very comparable artists.

    You may not appreciate hip hop, but it is most certainly music. And music that is appreciated by a very large audience.

    #10 Posted: 28/1/2010 - 01:00

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  • NormLNorma

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    > "You may not appreciate hip hop, but it is most certainly music. And
    > music that is appreciated by a very large audience."

    No. It is NOT. It's noise and annoying at that. A lot of people liking something doesn't make it good. LOL, I think it makes them stupid, haha.

    I can't remember hearing anything all the way through that Springsteen has sung but have caught a clip of him here and there. Not appealing, to me. (Didn't he have a song about America or the USA of something? That might have been it too, the subject matter. Don't like that at all.)I've tried to listen to various others, sometimes even forced to when in the market shopping and such. Most of the contemporary stuff I've heard is really bad. But it's bad anyway because I think the standards are NOT as high for art or anything today.
    My ear is tuned into Carabao and that's all I care about.

    #11 Posted: 28/1/2010 - 17:05

  • CunningMcFar

    Joined Travelfish
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    >>That might have been it too, the subject matter. Don't like that at all.

    #12 Posted: 29/1/2010 - 01:07

  • CunningMcFar

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 163
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    "That might have been it too, the subject matter. Don't like that at all."

    so apparently you are not down with an artist speaking out about the poor treatment Vietnam veterans received on returning home? or how the working poor in the US were forced to fight a war they did not understand?
    hmmm...I suppose then I should not be surprised by this stunningly arrogant statement:
    "No. It is NOT. It's noise and annoying at that. A lot of people liking something doesn't make it good. LOL, I think it makes them stupid, haha.

    not much room in yr world for a wider view of things is there?

    #13 Posted: 29/1/2010 - 01:11

  • NormLNorma

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    > not much room in yr world for a wider view of things is there?

    If someone who listens to rap crap goes to the opera with me, I'll listen to that nonsense with them. Deal?

    #14 Posted: 29/1/2010 - 09:11

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 6374
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    Norma
    I despise opera (with some exceptions). It's a music form that I have always found haughty and elitist. HOWEVER, I would NEVER make the arguement that it's not art or music. It's both. It's just not a form I enjoy.

    Hip Hop IS music. It may be an art form you don't enjoy, because it isn't appealing to your cultural orientation. But it does appeal to the cultural orientation of a whole segment of global society. To write it off as simply bad and declare it's not music is - well I'll be kind - a display of gross ignorance. It would suffice to say it's an art form you don't enjoy and leave it at that.

    Bruce Springsteens song, Born in the USA, is, as Cunning highlights, a song about working class people caught up in a conflict not of their making.

    "Born down in a dead man's town
    The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
    You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
    'Til you spend half your life just covering up"

    "I got in a little hometown jam
    And so they put a rifle in my hands
    Sent me off to Vietnam
    To go and kill the yellow man"

    "I had a buddy at Khe Sahn
    Fighting off the Viet Cong
    They're still there, he's all gone
    He had a little girl in Saigon
    I got a picture of him in her arms"

    That's the gist of that song - it's not a rah, rah USA song.

    Or try this one:

    "In `65 tension was running high at my high school
    There was a lot of fights between the black and white
    There was nothing you could do
    Two cars at a light on a saturday night in the back seat there was a gun
    Words were passed in a shotgun blast
    Troubled times had come to my hometown
    My hometown, my hometown, my hometown"

    Like Carabao, Bruce sings about social issues that he's familiar with. Issue mostly of his generation.

    Or this one on a man suffering with AIDS:

    "I was bruised and battered and I couldnt tell
    What I felt
    I was unrecognizable to myself
    I saw my reflection in a window I didn't know
    My own face
    Oh brother are you gonna leave me
    Wastin´away
    On the streets of philadelphia

    I walked the avenue till my legs felt like stone
    I heard the voices of friends vanished and gone
    At night I could hear the blood in my veins
    Black and whispering as the rain
    On the streets of philadelphia "

    Maybe before you condemn an artist or music you should actually listen to it. Springsteen was and is a great musician.

    #15 Posted: 30/1/2010 - 16:03

  • NormLNorma

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    Posts: 17

    > Springsteen was and is a great musician.

    I never said he wasn't a musician or an artist. Great? That's a matter of taste but I have no objection to him or his music, just not something that appeals to me from the bit I've ever heard. He does have something to say to his followers, misguided that they might be about their fate or lot in life. : )
    Rap crap is a different situation. I guess if one accepts the philosophy that any sound or noise is music then OK, maybe it is. Mankind has over the years advanced from the caveman days when they only had sticks and rocks to bang together. Rap crap has reverted back to the lowest common denominator. I'd rather be sophisticated enough to enjoy the more advanced arrangements of notes and sounds.
    As for listening to it ... I'm almost forced to hear it every time a car goes by blasting that ear wrenching noise. Seems like the kind of people who listen to it have no respect for others. I'd like to blast Carabao over my car speakers so others may enjoy it, but I'm more considerate. I've had to call the police more than once for various neighbors who are so selfish too. So, don't tell me I haven't heard it, haha. I'm fed up with those annoying morons.

    #16 Posted: 31/1/2010 - 16:02

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 6374
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    Norma
    Again, your post smacks of elitism.

    People who like rap are "morons".

    It's music at it's lowest common denominator - a judgement you reached without ever really listening to it (by your own admission).

    Try these lyrics:

    "Fool, death ain't nothing but a heart beat away,
    I'm living life do or die, what can I say?
    I'm twenty-three now, will I ever live to see twenty-four,
    The way things is going I don't know.

    Tell me why are we
    So blind to see.
    That the ones we hurt
    Are you and me?
    We've been spending most our lives
    Living in a gangsta's paradise."

    Like I said, I'm not a huge fan, but it's just ridiculous to say it's not music. And when I'm working at in a boxing gym, rap is what's always playing in the background, and it works for that environment.

    "He does have something to say to his followers, misguided that they might be about their fate or lot in life. : )"

    Again, this smacks of elitism - you know better than they aboiut their lot in life. But you haven't taken a single step in their shoes.

    And again here:

    "I'd rather be sophisticated enough to enjoy the more advanced arrangements of notes and sounds."

    So you are sophisticated, they are simpletons. This is a very unhealthy attitude. It's one thing to say you don't appreciate the art form. It's another to denigrate it and set yourself up as a superior being because of it.

    #17 Posted: 2/2/2010 - 17:47

  • NormLNorma

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 17

    > Try these lyrics:
    > "Fool, death ain't nothing but a heart beat away,
    > I'm living life do or die, what can I say?
    > I'm twenty-three now, will I ever live to see twenty-four,
    > The way things is going I don't know.

    Elitism, hum! Not a word I would have thought of using but I like that, thank you.
    What am I supposed to gain from listening to those lyrics?
    In most cases people (Americans) who feel sorry for themselves don't try hard enough. I don't know where you live but where I do there is help for people if they search for it. Even though the government tries to keep people down.
    IMO, education is the key to everything. I also prefer to hear proper English and not deal with people who are incomprehensible. I'm not saying I know everything or that everyone should but not speaking a language correctly does show that a person is low class which usually means they are not educated. If you think that is wrong, then how many times do you hang around with people who have nothing in common with you?
    As for listening to it, one doesn't have to hear a song ALL the way through to know if they'll like it or not. I've heard enough of rap crap to know how it sounds.
    : )

    #18 Posted: 5/2/2010 - 09:51

  • NormLNorma

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 17

    > So you are sophisticated, they are simpletons.

    You never saw 'My Fair Lady'('Pygmalion')?
    : )

    #19 Posted: 5/2/2010 - 09:59

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 6374
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    "Elitism, hum! Not a word I would have thought of using but I like that, thank you."

    It's an appropriate word - and was not meant as a compliment (nor really an insult, but an observation).

    "What am I supposed to gain from listening to those lyrics?"

    A better understanding of people who live in the environments the music engendered. Again, I am not saying you have to like it, or even listen to it - but don't say it's not music or decry it has no value. Perhaps it has no value to YOU, and that's fine. But you are one of more than six billion people on the planet. The others get an equal vote.

    "In most cases people (Americans) who feel sorry for themselves don't try hard enough. I don't know where you live but where I do there is help for people if they search for it. Even though the government tries to keep people down."

    I live in Thailand, and before that Germany and Africa and the US. Whether or not people who feel sorry for themselves don't try hard enough is not possible for you or me to judge. Neither of us have walked in anyone elses shoes other than our own. My advice would be don't be too quick to get into the judgement buisiness.

    "IMO, education is the key to everything. I also prefer to hear proper English and not deal with people who are incomprehensible."

    Every language is full of dialects. Even in English there is no common denominator on what "proper English". In England you have different versions of English. I can barely understand the Scotts myself.

    "I'm not saying I know everything or that everyone should but not speaking a language correctly does show that a person is low class which usually means they are not educated. If you think that is wrong, then how many times do you hang around with people who have nothing in common with you?"

    People who are low class are still people who's worth is every bit as much as your own. Most people who are "low class" are born into that environment and are comfortable in it. I have a university education, but because I boxed for some ten years, and danced for ten years after that, I spent a great deal of time with people who are "low class". Class does not determine human value.

    "As for listening to it, one doesn't have to hear a song ALL the way through to know if they'll like it or not. I've heard enough of rap crap to know how it sounds."

    Again, you don't have to like it. There is a difference between saying "I can't stand it" or "I don't enjoy it" (as my take on opera - Brecht's Three Penny Opera being an exception - which really isn't an opera anyway) than to say it's not music or as no value or that those who do enjoy it are "morons".

    By the way Carabao sings a lot about downtrodden poor - some people might consider it appealing to "people who feel sorry for themselves".

    #20 Posted: 5/2/2010 - 16:54

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 6374
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    And yes, I know the Scotts are not English. But they speak English or a sort.

    #21 Posted: 6/2/2010 - 11:09

  • NormLNorma

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    Posts: 17

    "Three Penny Opera"
    Ok, now we're getting somewhere. : ) I like that too. I think they do consider it an opera, in the form of light opera as opposed to grand opera.

    > dialects
    It's one thing to use a different word or expression for something than to mutilate the language out of ignorance or lack of education.
    Let me give you an example. Long ago someone from southern part of the USA was telling me she was waiting for her husband to come carry her home. I'm from the West and never heard that before, couldn't figure out what she meant. I was young. Then I realized when she said 'carry' she meant come to 'get' her. I thought she meant he would pick her up in his arms and carry her, haha. That's ok, she didn't misuse the language. But lately I've been hearing people, people who are clearly uneducated, say 'I had went to the store' or some such use of 'had went'. THAT'S awful and sound illiterate. Then there are those who say, tooken, as in I tooken something. Those are the errors I'm talking about, not local expressions.
    What Carabao sings about is not exactly the same as the American poor experience. Some, yes but not most.
    I don't think I said the lower class is not of value. I don't care to be with people who are not intelligent. And before you say anything about that, haha, I don't mean people who have only had higher education, one can be very intelligent without any formal schooling.
    I never graduated collage, never got good grades in English and can't read but don't want to lower myself because of that, I try to raise above it by watching educational programs, not by listen to things that won't improve my situation.
    I don't like to be around people who are unaware and negligent, such as the representation of those I've seen who perform rap crap. Gees, they kill each other. How smart is that?

    #22 Posted: 9/2/2010 - 18:15

  • CunningMcFar

    Joined Travelfish
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    "It's one thing to use a different word or expression for something than to mutilate the language out of ignorance or lack of education."

    I took a few courses in cognitive psychology and learned that many of the idioms of ebonics, or black English, actually conform grammatically to the grammar rules of West African and Afro-Caribbean languages, geographic hotspots of the slave trade of the Americas. So some of the uses of English that you may consider simply ignorance are indeed proper use grammar rules from places of origin applied to the English language, a phrase like "he be at work" is not a simple matter of ignorant English misuse, or "mutilation" as you say, but the inherent use of hard-wired rules of grammar applied to a non-native language. These things can remain hard-wired in the brain of folks from those cultures for many generations. Would you condemn an Asian person as ignorant or uneducated because they may not have the inherent, hard-wired glottal or labial control to pronounce an "r" sound the same way an Eton-educated prep student might?

    #23 Posted: 9/2/2010 - 22:18

  • CunningMcFar

    Joined Travelfish
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    http://www.cal.org/topics/dialects/aae.html
    poke around the page "AAE Online Resources", interesting stuff indeed, I would think even more so for a person who values self-education

    #24 Posted: 9/2/2010 - 22:42

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    The Three Penny Opera is a musical - but Europe of the period didn't have musicals (hell, barely has them now). It's great material - the only thing Brecht ever wrote that I think is worth a ****.

    As for intelligence - it's over-rated. There are lots of intelligent people who are losers, and lots of morons who are decent folks.

    As for Caraboa, trust me on this, his themes and music is VERY similar to Springsteen. Listen closely to the lyrics and music of both and you will be surprised at how similar they are. You can't like one and not like the other unless you just can't understand them.

    #25 Posted: 10/2/2010 - 00:42

  • NormLNorma

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 17

    > "Would you condemn an Asian person as ignorant or uneducated because they may not have the inherent, hard-wired glottal or labial control to pronounce an "r" sound "

    Funny that you mentioned this. My 'room mate' who is from Thailand has been in the USA for around 40 years, I have been with him for over 30 years. I make fun of him all the time when he tries to speak English. LOL, sometimes it's funny! Hey! Before you send hate mail, haha, he makes fun of himself too. Although he does get a little upset if I go too far. (grin!)
    I wouldn't 'condemn' someone unless they were told the correct way and still didn't try to learn. When one is in a country as a permanent resident they should speak the predominant language (as best they can). Some don't try. That's what I don't like.

    #26 Posted: 10/2/2010 - 11:06

  • NormLNorma

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 17

    >"These things can remain hard-wired in the brain of folks from those cultures for many generations."

    That's nonsense.
    I am 1st generation 'American'. Born in the USA but never wanted to be one. However, as far as language, English is the only one I know well. I have no speech pattern from my family who was from eastern Europe. In fact when I told my aunt on my fathers side, I was studying Russian she wondered why. She said, we are here now.
    What about orphans adopted as babies from China or other places do they not learn what they are taught from their new parents and new culture and act accordingly?

    #27 Posted: 10/2/2010 - 11:24

  • CunningMcFar

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 163
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    did you even venture a peek at the African American English Online Resources I posted above? very interesting academic research going on about this topic, check it out you might be surprised

    #28 Posted: 10/2/2010 - 21:40

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 6374
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    "I am 1st generation 'American'. Born in the USA but never wanted to be one. However, as far as language, English is the only one I know well."

    Disappointing that you were "born in the USA" but never wanted to be a US citizen.

    Those Americans of slave decent were prevented from learning to read and write for generations. Additionally, they were not educated in proper English. Hence the ebonics dialect has been culturally and linguistically part of their heritage.

    I speak four languages, two very well, two functionally, and I can tell you for sure that certain aspects of grammar and pronunciation are VERY difficult to overcome.

    Back to the theme, however, I maintain that if one likes either Carabao or Springsteen, one has to pretty much like the other. They are just too similar in style and substance. Ignorance is the only excuse for disregarding one while being a fan of the other.

    #29 Posted: 11/2/2010 - 00:34

  • NormLNorma

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 17

    I just got some unfortunate news about one of the members of Carabao. I'm not going to post for a while as this is a bit upsetting. I need to check for further information. Thank you for understanding.

    #30 Posted: 13/2/2010 - 12:56

  • MADMAC

    Joined Travelfish
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    Posts: 6374
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    I heard Terry tried to kill himself - anyone know any more details? Man, he was a great part of that band. He'll be missed for sure.

    #31 Posted: 7/3/2010 - 11:17

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