Laos forum

pabloeskimo

You are not the first on Travelfish to complain about these BCAL ATM's. I've also had a problem (in April, last).

I don't know which country you call home, nor where you are now.

If you are at home, you'll find most banks are 'wised up' about these issues. There are other similar 'posts' here on Travelfish so if the silly sausage at the bank counter is a vacuum-head, refer them to Travelfish & BCEL. Once past the sausage and talking to a manager, you'll note that the bank has methods to check the transaction and refund where necessary. If not, try your travel insurer (but there's usually an excess, so bank first).

If still away from home, contact your bank by email alerting them to the fact/s, and indicating you will address the matter on your return. In your email, ask them to begin checking the BCEL transactions (they won't, but at least you tried).

Cheers

In Laos it's cash and carry. In Thailand, don't use stand alone ATMs. Use ATMs at banks.

I use ATMs here all the time and have never had a problem - yet. Its hardly "cash and carry" here Mac

hello

i also have had the SAME probel with bcel..this is what happened

in phonosavan i tryed to use the atm to withdraw cash but it also said down for maintaince,over 2days i tryed this 6times as i was desperate and had hardly any cash...but on the last time instead of saying down for maintaince it said 0KIP balance and i thought that was strange as there should of been $1000nzd in my account

to my horror when i read my bank statement it said that the 5times id tryed to withdraw money...it had actually come out of my account!!but not the machine because said down for maintence and i waited to make sure no money come out each time.

anyway i contacted my bank back home and went into a bcel branch
,they werent very helpful or professional at all i showed them my passport and a copy of my statement highlighting the missing funds.after about 30mins waiting,i was asked to fill in a claim form which was very basic,then being told that that atm wasnt for international eftpos.
and that the money would be refunded(actually i had to ask they didnt tell me)but couldnt tell me when.

so that was on the 15THJULY almost 1month ago,i went into the bcel pakse brance to ask about the funds (had been about 3weeks)as soon as the man at the desk had read my statement they told me to go outside the front of the bank to the exchange office
here the man wasnt very helpful,he then gave us the phone and said it was the vientaine head office,i was put on to a lady that spoke very little english but she said it was being PROCESSED

so now it is almost a month and still $1000nz which i actually need is not there.i have emailed bcel 5times and no reply.my travel insurance doesnt include cash ,my bank at home has been very helpful but even they can only do so much!

i really loved laos but i had to say did ruin my trip and the bcel are very unprofessional and unhelpful.

please msg me if u have had any luck getting your money back as i am really not sure what i can do to get mine back!!

For those knocking BCEL. I have had three accounts with them - Kip, Baht and USD, (now only Kip and USD). I have always found them to be professional and very helpful. Maybe it helps to be polite and also to speak some Lao.

imissmarmite, I find your story somewhat confusing. You say you used the ATM 6 times. The maximum withdrawal allowed from a BCEL ATM is 700,000 Kip. 6 x 700,000 = 420,000 Kip, which certainly does not add up to $1000 NZD. So something in your story does not add up, (excuse the pun).

hi rufus thank you for doing the maths these are mine

700,000= $140nzd
x6 =840nz

fees charged $48

total $888nzd so i am sorry it was not approx none the less it has been very stressful as this situation is out of my control.i do not understand if they can take money out of my account automatically but cannot tell me when they money will be refunded.

i went into bcel twice,each time a passport the proper documents and a smile as i know that getting agitated does not help any situation.
each time i was polite clear and patient.

put yourself in other peoples shoes that this has happened to rufus

what if u were in a new country,and this happened and there was nothing you could do to fix it but wait,i tell you it has been so stressful it is alot of money to go from the account.

obviuosly u live there,speak some of the language and have a better understanding of how there system works.

imissmarmite

For your own info, a withdrawal from an ATM of another financial institution MUST be approved by your bank. It's all automated now, but that's the law.

Like all banks, my hunch is that your bank would like it best if you can sort it out. I'm not suggesting you act immediately, but when you go back to kiwiland, ask the bank to verify the transactions (they'll know what you mean). Without verification, they have to refund you the transactions (and their added costs). All the banks have insurance to cover this.

In the meantime, quietly let your bank know that as the ATM transaction wasn't 'authorised' (ie. BCEL charged a fee but didn't deliver the goods as the contract between you and them in the ATM action) when you return from your travels you will want your bank to refund ALL.

A simple move may be to write a letter to your bank, listing the telephone (or other) contacts you've had with your bank & BCEL, and the result you have had to date, and alert them that when you return, you'll be pursuing it further. This way, there is a written record (and banks LOVE written records). And, make a photocopy & send home for when you return.

ps. It's only 2 weeks till you can get marmite (i'm an Aussie, but I prefer marmite - no-one stocks it in Asia [you can get vegemite, but.. :( ])

Cheers

Thanks for all your painful stories. Best of luck recovering the lost funds. A warning has also been posted on Lonely Planet Thorntree.

The Thorntree thread is here

Agree with somsai - nice pic Captain_Bob - got your email btw, will get back to you on it.

Cheers

Bruce, I disagree with your last post. Baht is NOT interchangeable. Yes, most restaurants and hotels will take Baht, but it is not the official currency of Laos. The government is making a concerted attempt to get people to use Kip. I think this should be supported. In many places the exchange rate if you pay in Baht will be somewhat poorer as well.

Hmm, I do agree with Rufus and in the Lao government's stance. And besides, I frequently find that in most cases, the traveler gets a better value since Lao merchants will round-down to to the traveler's disadvantage whether it's using Thai bahts or US dollars instead of the Lao kip. It starts to add up after a while.

But back to BCEL's and ATM technical difficulties . . .

Sort of slipping off topic, but regards currency use in Laos, we're in the process of switching all the listed accommodation prices on Travelfish into kip (we used to mostly display them in US dollars, or in a couple of cases, baht).

Why?

Because during the last research jaunt through far northern Laos, almost without exception the guesthouses priced, and expected payment, in kip. Yes there are a few exceptions to this, Huay Xai still has a few places pricing in Baht, and Luang Prabang, well some of those places are soo expensive, we'd need an extra line to fit all the zeroes in if couldn't use dollars.

Generally speaking we use the currency the guesthouse quotes us in and there seems to have been a substantial shirt in this over the last couple of years -- perhaps due to the govt policy mentioned above.

are there any atms from other banks than bcel in vientiane and luang prabang? or ist this a general problem with all atms?

I heard that the Lao government wants their citizens to use the Lao Kip for all transactions. It is possible to pay your Guesthouse in dollars & in most restaurants you can pay with Baht or dollars as well.
But remember that most of the times they use a bad exchange rate. The best exchange rates can be found at banks, the best rate we found was at a Vientiane bank on the riverside.

Btw no news yet on the lost ATM money.

somsai

When will you stop bleating and get your facts right.

If you were standing beside me and observed the interaction, I suggest you would have the knowledge to have a view.

You were not there, you don't know what transpired, and you now pull assertions out of your cake hole to write rubbish.

:(

Rufus

You are also joining Somsai's stupidity.

In relation to my post #21, you'd be right for the Nong Khai cross. However, not for the other two. That I didn't buy a visa there is beside the point, the fact is I was asked to pay money. And, I used baht, and I paid in Baht at a rate commensurate with the mid-market rate (give a bit) on www.xe.com/ucc/.

To put MY side bluntly, I told the bloke that the US$ 'fee' being imposed was XXX Baht and handed that over. He wanted more, I argued (as you'd expect me to). I got my visa stamped and was on my way. Similar deal when leaving.

If I can do it, I assume others can too!

So, like that other clown, please ensure you refer to FACTS.

:(

"So Bruce, you intimidated a border guard, cheated and stole money from the Laos Government? Do I have it correct?"

That would be excellent if true.

I crossed the border with Cambodia, it's kind of a scam. Officially you don't have to pay anything but the Lao border officials ask you for 2 dollars & the Cambodian border officials for 1 dollar. I payed these guys in Baht.
If you don't pay they lay your passport aside & tell you to wait ... until you pay. You can be sure that these surcharges go straight into the officials pockets. This reminds me I have to complain about the 25 dollar surcharge you have to pay to leave Siem Reap airport.

any news on the bcel front?

What do people suggest, in terms of carrying money around, whilst in Laos? When I was in Cambodia/Vietnam I arrived with a $100 in cash and then just used ATMs once the dollars were spent. I am a bit nervous, having read what I have about relying on ATMs in Laos, but at the same time I don't want to carry around bundles of dollars with me either the whole trip. Is it fairly easy to get travellers cheques changed in the main towns?

Sorry if this is a daft question, I just have always relied on ATMs mostly for currency and am off to Laos in 2 weeks.

Rufus
I too use ATMs... but I live here. If there's a problem I can walk right into my bank and deal with it. I know there are masquerading machines that steal account info from people - usually placed in tourist locations. So it's a reasonable fear. The problem in this case is the individual is a tourist. If he's still having an issue a month latter, he's screwed. He has to leave.

Many places in Laos where you can exchange money, you can withdraw with visa as well. We withdrew money from a bank exchange office in Vientiane & in Pakse. Whilst in Laos we hadn't heard any stories from fellow travellers about stolen money. We only heard about a "smoke some of my weed" setup.

even when the ATMs aren't stealing your money they are often down for other technical problems

illustration (source: Sept 2009 travelog post on Luang Prabang)

LoganT: for your itinerary (on other thread), you'll be able to exchange TCs in the towns you're passing through. if you don't want to carry bundles of dollars, you could spend the kip you get out of ATMs/from TCs first (esp since you can't use kip outside of Laos), & hang onto a smaller amount of dollars as a backup (when ATMs are down/banks are closed). though bear in mind that bundles of kip can be much thicker than equivalent value in bundles of dollars! largest denomination (50,000kip) is worth slightly below USD6.

I´m in Luang Prabang right now. I had no problem to take out money from the BCEL ATM at the airport & on sisavavong road using my VISA card.

pabloeskimo - glad to hear it -- thanks for reporting it.

Pablo
Good to hear it.

Jake
I wouldn't go so far as to never go to Laos. I would just say have enough cash on hand so you don't need to rely on ATMs. I do the same thing here in Thailand, because those scams are run here as well. I only use the ATMs in the town where I live that are affiliated with the Bank where I do my buisiness. I have been using them a long time and feel comfortable with them. But when I travel, I travel with cash.

Let me set this straight. We weren't scammed because we got all of our money back. It took a while but we got it all back.
Despite the ATM nuisance, I would really like to go back to Laos.
I think the smartest thing to do is go to a Bank booth to redraw money with your visa card, we used one in Vientiane & later on in Pakse. It wasn't really expensive, the ratings were better in Vientiane.
Just remember that all banks are closed during the weekend.

Nothin' but love for Laos. And the British "tubing" community should stop ruining Vang Vieng, because it is a really beautiful place & not an entertainment park.

Greetings

Christay
Indeed. No matter where the tubing and associated partying were being done, someone would be decrying it. But there is a seperate thread on this subject.

Ive always been pretty reliant on atms while away from home and will continue to be, although in Laos i have only used them twice and both times i encountered the problem of a transaction happening but nothing coming out.

Since i cant check whats actually in my bank while abroad i was initially anxious and when back to where i was staying and asked someone to go to a bank with me which they were happy to do.

The money had indeed left my home account but not come to me, the issue was dealt with within a day i wasnt refunded but the bank were in contact with my bank at home and i received emails from my bank confirming this and once i was home there was no hassle as both banks had been made aware early one there had been an error.

I would indeed be hesitant to use atms next time i am in Laos as i'd rather not have to bother spending a day in banks (although the woman who helped me out i became great friends with so it had a good upside). I'd of never considered atm errors to be a scam, they are errors they become scams when you dont chase after them and get an issue resolved.

I'm glad this thread was of use to some people. Like Gorey says I don't think it's a scam, their bank system just isn't good enough yet. All the people who had problems with the ATM got their money refunded so ... no real worries.

As regards BCEL...yes they are still stealing money, or lack the security to stop others stealing it. They have refused to investigate my complaint and even threatened me with their lawyer for rasising the matter ! If that were not enough, when I intially complained in the bank I was told by a dim young man that I was 'a liar'....I am not sure why I did not punch him on the nose there and then.
I would advise visitors to Laos to avoid BCEL