Posted by busylizzy on 8/7/2012 at 20:19
What a depressingly hideous and awful story.
#2 busylizzy has been a member since 31/12/2007. Location: New Zealand. Posts: 2,152
Posted by MADMAC on 8/7/2012 at 23:13
We are not there to change anything. We are there to kill some specific people and remind these barbarians who's boss. And we are doing that. When Al Zawahiri's head is on a stake, and Mullah Omar is at the bottom of the Indian Ocean, we can leave. Keep just enough force around to kill any uppity Taliban that wander around too far afield from Waziristan. This is about proving who has the bigger balls. And it had better be us. All the kids there are volunteers. Just like I was. This is what they do, and they are willing to do it. It's got to be done.
#3 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Posted by busylizzy on 8/7/2012 at 23:34
I can never understand is how come it's the woman that loses her life? What about the man that was party to this - the taliban commander? Presumably he was committing sins of adultery too. Or rape. And if it was rape, I'm sure it was her fault still.
It's a sick, sick world.
#4 busylizzy has been a member since 31/12/2007. Location: New Zealand. Posts: 2,152
Posted by sayadian on 8/7/2012 at 23:45
There are campaigns and there are campaigns.These arseholes kill each other when there are no foreigners to kill.The guys I know feel demoralised because the whole thing is a political f***up. Leave these savages to get on with it and remember the families left bereft when their boy gets brought home with a flag.The war cannot be won, they'll just move somewhere else.Yemen. You can't kill a twisted ideology.Historically it's our 4rd campaign in that hellhole.I don't know any soldier who feels he's achieved anything after his 6 months.
No, it's a sick ideology.
#5 sayadian has been a member since 15/1/2008. Posts: 1,557
Posted by MADMAC on 9/7/2012 at 01:39
"The guys I know feel demoralised because the whole thing is a political f***up."
The guys you know are obviously not professional soldiers, like I and my colleagues were. We worry about the when, sometimes the where, always the how much. We don't give two shits about the why - although I understand the why here. Professional soldiers in the modern US Army don't spend a lot of time contemplating the why. Good book to read about this is "War" by Sebastian Junger. The why doesn't matter.
"Leave these savages to get on with it and remember the families left bereft when their boy gets brought home with a flag"
That would be nice if they would leave us alone. But they don't intend to do that. So until we can make sure they are going to do that, we have to keep killing them.
"The war cannot be won, they'll just move somewhere else.Yemen."
The way has almost already been won. You got to walk the dog man. You haven't done that.
"You can't kill a twisted ideology.Historically it's our 4rd campaign in that hellhole.I don't know any soldier who feels he's achieved anything after his 6 months."
6 Months? Who's Army is that? Certainly not mine. We do 12-13 months and we do repeated deployments. I did eight in my career. What have we achieved? What we wanted to achieve. We are communicating a message. And we are communicating it in the only language these guys understand.
On the subject of the controlled application of violence, Mad Mac is never wrong. This one he's got down.
#6 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Posted by MADMAC on 9/7/2012 at 02:46
I didn't even mention British soldiers - let alone insult them.
The war on terror is a poor phrase for the war on Al Qaeda. And we are winning it. And winning it cleanly. That organization has been well and truly neutered and is on it's back legs right now, reeling from blow after blow. Let's keep it that way.
As for the ideological war, the Islamic Ummah understands getting your head blown off. They get that one. It's a carrot and stick thing. The carrot is you can move to the 21st century if you behave. The stick is we'll keep putting hellfires through your roof at night if you don't. If we leave the field to the barbarians, they'll regroup and be knocking on our door again in no time. Pundits don't get it. Because the government doesn't tell them the truth. The war in Afghanistan has nothing to do with Afghnistan. That just happens to be part of the geograghy.
#8 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Posted by chinarocks on 9/7/2012 at 03:14
Sayadian, I see your point when you say nothing has changed. But it has really. It is impossible for the allied forces to completely stamp out this kind of barbaric act. What has changed is that Al-Qaeda has been completely rooted out of Afghanistan. Unfortunately they are regrouping in Yemen but hopefully not to the same extent as previously.
However, to focus in on the war on terror and barbaric isloated incidents like this one is to miss the point of this whole thing. Until there is lasting peace and a long-term solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, there can never be proper peace between the East and West.
#9 chinarocks has been a member since 17/6/2011. Posts: 738
Posted by MADMAC on 9/7/2012 at 03:28
"Until there is lasting peace and a long-term solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, there can never be proper peace between the East and West."
Even then, China, you've got one other big problem that won't go away easily. Those who see Islam as a perfect governing system provided via divine intervention, view the west as an ideological threat because it provides a socio-economic compact that is so appealing. When Bush said "they hate our freedoms" there was truth in that, though it was much derided at the time and since. They hate the freedom we represent, because their socio-economic compact doesn't offer that nor does it compete well economically. Hence for many young Muslims, Islam as a governing system is not appealing. Western Democracy is. The militants can't have that and thus will attack us when they can with whatever flimsy excuse is on hand.
#10 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Posted by billytheliar on 9/7/2012 at 07:26
Well, the world is a bit older than few decades. And I have difficulties remembering a historically significant nation whithout criminal or genocidal record. Don΄t get me wrong, I΄m no friend of jihaddist fanatics, I just see a bit of arrogance when civilized westerners speak of barbarians - sounds like ¨well, we haven΄t slaughtered anyone recently¨.
A word about success : You must wait for the end of the fight to decide who has won and who has lost. Do you really think that the conflict in global scale is over?
#11 billytheliar has been a member since 3/4/2012. Posts: 48
Posted by chinarocks on 9/7/2012 at 07:34
"I just see a bit of arrogance when civilized westerners speak of barbarians - sounds like well, we haven't slaughtered anyone recently"
The Iraq war springs to mind - that was barbarism on a new scale altogether. Even the most conservative estimates put civilian deaths at 100k here, that's the equivalent of thirty 9/11s. And all for what - oil.
#12 chinarocks has been a member since 17/6/2011. Posts: 738
Posted by sayadian on 9/7/2012 at 07:50
'What has changed is that Al-Qaeda has been completely rooted out of Afghanistan.'
Yes but these were the locals (Pathan probably) NOT Arabs.
Madmac, You won't change barbarism with 'hellfire' missiles.
Don't forget you can keep killing them but it only takes one to get through and we'll have another mass atrocity.You should know dying sends them to heaven they are not afraid of being killed.
I think most people now recognise that Iraq was just the Bush family's revenge.Totally unnecessary overkill.
The Palestinian people deserve better but until an American president has the guts to stand up to Israeli Zionism it'll never happen.
#13 sayadian has been a member since 15/1/2008. Posts: 1,557
Posted by chinarocks on 9/7/2012 at 08:00
Agree with everything you say Sayadian.
#14 chinarocks has been a member since 17/6/2011. Posts: 738
Posted by LeonardCohen1 on 26/7/2012 at 06:44
It's madness. World isnt any safer and there's nutters in Egypt and other places that want to harm westerners. This Afghan war is a waste of time, money and lives.
#15 LeonardCohen1 has been a member since 24/7/2012. Posts: 2,148
Please login to add your reply