The first part of a British "documentary" covering the supposed problems in Thailand has just aired and has created quite a storm of controversy -- primarily because the opening scene (jetski) really looks staged, and the others are not particularly sympathetic cases...
Below are YouTube vids for the first episode, would be interested to hear other's thoughts...
Each is around ten minutes in length. My initial reaction was what a load of rubbish, closely followed by a feeling that this really isn't at all representative.
What do you think?
Firstly, anyone who rents a jetski deserves to be ripped off, They are a danger to swimmers and in particular divers. The only reason that they haven't been banned in Phuket (as promised many years ago) is the level of corruption. Their numbers were supposed to have been reduced but even this hasn't happened as jetskis are brought into Phuket which are registered in other areas.
The morons who rent them mostly charge around a few meters from the shore, rather than away from other users, showing a total disregard for other people in the water. There have also been a few deaths in Phuket, (fortunately the people on the jetski, rather than others).
I belive the stories of people being ripped off are true as the same things happen on rental motorbikes, However, jetskis are a menace and should be banned. Any adverse publicy to discourage their use is more than welcomed!
Dive instructor - Phuket!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I belive the stories of people being ripped off are true as the same things happen on rental motorbikes, However, jetskis are a menace and should be banned."
Why is it that when people don't like something it should be banned?
How about if it were just regulated and areas were designated for jet skis and boating while other designated for swimming and diving?
#4 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Apparantly this was NOT staged, according to the director (not that that really means much). He issued a press statement but i don't know where i read it. Also, he put an extra couple of videos online that were "unedited" and these look much less staged. Also, there have been news stories saying that "JJ" was arrested, with photos and everything, but i suppose this could be staged as well. But these stories involve the Govenor and polititions from other nations eg. Australia etc
Moreover, do you think that company would have the balls to "stage" something involving the navy? I'm pretty sure they British government might have something to say about that. Moreover, in the second episode some of the high level officers are seen again.
I thought the original video was staged, as did my thai GF.
By the way, episode 2 has been up for a while, and paints an even scarier picture for tourists with quite a bit of violence.
#5 furneburner has been a member since 5/9/2009. Posts: 180
I got the impression he called for a ban not because of personal dislike, but because they constitute a hazard and attempts for regulations have failed so far (as he says).
For the videos, I only made it halfway through. What crap.
First, it is not really clear to the viewer if the tourists were "guilty" or not. Apart from being totally staged, the jet ski scene is just ridiculous - we do not know if the guys did indeed damage the jet ski (maybe badly repaired damage ripped open). Also, he was "captured" and brought to the isolated shop when he ran away? Sorry, why would he run away? If he had handled the situation on the beach, he would have been in a much better position to bargain his way out - surrounded by other people, and maybe "tourist police officer" Mrs. Friendly.
The question for personal responsibility is not raised at all. If you get caught in possession of drugs, that's what is unlawful. If you "own" them or not interests nobody. Everybody knows that, and if not, your fault! It is their country and their laws. If you end up in jail, raise hell to get the money for bail - there are many ways you can do this as a westerner. This "scammed" tourists do not make a particular grown up impression to me.
Overall, the cases are presented in a kind of oriental worldview: the cruel, barbaric, corrupt and dishonest asians versus the caring, straight and fair british.
Of course their are scams. Does that make Thailand a particulary "dangerous" place for tourists? I have only been to Chiang Mai, but I think that is a pretty silly assumption.
Better watch some Mighty Boosh, thats quality british television!
#6 hokasch has been a member since 24/12/2008. Posts: 45
Jamie's Phuket-blog has a great write up on this and includes a link off to another story with the director, where he says the scene was not staged.
There's also talk that the Thai authorities are trying to have the remainder of the series not shown. furneburner -- I can't find them on Youtube -- do you have a link to them?
As for the girl locked up for ganga, as hokasch says, it's not like Thailand's laws regarding drugs are not well known -- buyer/user/holder beware. I found it a bit galling to see the boyfriend complaining about it being a bit hot while his girlfriend is locked up. And his statement that you can't get more than 200 quid out of an ATM in Thailand in a day is rubbish (though perhaps it is limited on the UK side?).
Yes if you are caught with drugs in Thailand and can't scrape up enough cash to "sort it out" within the first 24 hours or so, then things get complicated very very very quickly. We know of one traveller in Samui who is doing 14 years there because he dragged his feet in getting the required cash together (90,000B), hoping to be able to nego it downwards. Is it corruption? -- of course it is, but in cases like this its corruption that actually benefits the tourists.
I can see why the Thai authorities are upset about it, but what were they thinking when they allowed filming in the first place?!
"I got the impression he called for a ban not because of personal dislike, but because they constitute a hazard and attempts for regulations have failed so far (as he says)."
I didn't get that impression at all. I got the impression he personally hate jet skis because he likes to dive, and the two aren't very compatable (neither are speed boats for that matter). Others don't like them because they are loud and they want "peaceful beaches". Generally speaking the urge to have jet skis or other recreational vehicles banned comes from those who have other interests with which the jet ski conflicts and are disinterested in the desires of others. This isn't just true for jet skis, but almost any human activity.
And the subtle, or sometimes not so subtle, message is that the activity in question is not legitimate (in the eyes of the person doing criticizing it). This was the same as with the VV thread. I was a long time boxer and always found it offensive how people were criticizing the sport and wanted it banned (instead of just not watching / participating). In Germany (and other locals) people don't like paintball, which is enormous fun, so they want it banned. And so on and so forth.
As for Thailand and scams and such... there is hardly any violence directed against tourists in Thailand. The numbers are ridiculously low. You are in more danger in most of your home countries than here.
#8 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Yup, there are lots of scams in Thailand. Know what there's even more of?
Obnoxious tourists (disproportionately British) flouting the law.
Want some advice on how to avoid 'big trouble' in Thailand: don't break the law.
Sure, if you're in a place like Patong or Koh Phangan you may have the impression that the country is a hedonistic theme park, but that's actually not true. It's a real country with real laws, real police officers, real jails, and real jail sentences.
Yes, some police in Thailand are corrupt and opportunistic (isn't that true everywhere though?), but you can avoid these encounters 99% of them time by not openly and shamelessly breaking the country's laws!
Some countries have stricter drug laws than others, and if you intend to partake you better do your research. If you get caught with marijuana that "isn't yours" in the USA, you better believe you're going to jail too (and not have the chance to buy your way out of it for 40,000 B!). I'm from Canada where smoking marijuana won't get you arrested, but I wouldn't dream of touching it in Thailand.
Unrelated --- I love how they keep calling it "Foo-ket".
There's been more developments today, with suggestions the film company will be prosecuted for "damaging Thailand's reputation". Simultaneously they're (again) talking about forcing jetski rentals to offer insurance -- which is simply never ever going to happen, as the people riding them are invariably unlicensed (is there even a jetski license?) and often drunk.
I hate the things -- but would be happy simply if they were restricted to certain beaches -- the problem is that even when they are "restricted" in practise it is not enforced.
I've just finished watching the second episode, it's also awful, with sections including soldiers getting glassed in Pattaya (by another tourist) a tourist getting bottled by a ladyboy (also in Pattaya), a drunk Brit getting beaten up at the FMP, another drunk Brit threatened for relieving himself on a taxi and some British guy looking at 32 years for scamming ATM machines in Phuket... The ladyboy incident was about as "Thailand specific" as it got. It's mostly pissed up clowns doing stupid things.
If anything the series goes some way towards showing the good work the tourist police volunteers are doing.
A more appropriate title perhaps could be "Big Boozin' Brits are Trouble in Thailand"
Thanks to the guys who defended my statement about jetskis! Actually, diving, swimming & jet skis are not incompatible if the jetskis kept away from others - but they don't. We, (divers), have surface floats and flags to indicate our presence, unfortunelty it is not unknown for the morons to use these for salam practice!!!! As stated there is not a requirement for training for a jetski and all attempts to enforce any safety, such as the flags & bouys and also half a mile of bouys defining the edges of a reef are to no avail as they are frequently run over. without training and education the only safe thing is to ban them all together - it's not just because I don't like them.
It does appear as if the film company responsible for the films has been charged with 'illegal export'. According to the Bangkok Post the TAT is supposed to check all films exported for content (not that anyone knew that untill this morning!!!
The problem here is respect for authority and it is always expected and given in Asia.
In Europe respect for others or authority went out the door years ago.It started with a desire for more personal freedom but this has bred a generation of selfish hedonists who couldn't give a f*** about anybody else.Probably these people in trouble have lots of experience of getting away with murder when they have been on holiday in Spain or Greece where this bad behaviour is endemic and reluctantly tolerated.
Going East they expect the attitude to be the same - BIG MISTAKE!
#12 sayadian has been a member since 15/1/2008. Posts: 1,557
Whenever I see jet skis I think of Kirsty McColl (who sang with the Pogues on Fairytale of New York). She was killed by a jetskier in Mexico while swimming. The alleged jetskier was son of some rich guy and was never prosecuted. They are a menace,as are the people who wish to ride them, and are, in my view, best avoided.
There was a whole spate of these types of programmes on British TV a while ago. Usually, they are set in UK cities and follow the police dealing with the results of heavy drinking; but sometimes they have been in Spain or Greece, or wherever. Sometimes I felt that the programmes helped glamourise yobbish and boorish behaviour; at least in the eyes of the audience they seemed to wish to attract. Yobbishness, it appears, is now one of our biggest exports.
The problem is that some countries, when developing their tourist offering, go for the quick dollar. They aim themselves at anybody with money in their pocket. Spain did it in the 60s and 70s; Greece, Turkey to a degree and now Thailand. Then, once they've wrecked much of what people came for in the first place and they attract large numbers of yobs, they think 'Oh, no. What have we done !' By then it can be too late. Spain has been trying for some years now to attract a different type of tourist (with some success; its a wonderful country), but in the eyes of the public it is still the Costas. Italy, which never went for the quick buck, just doesn't have the same problem.
Ah, to be a travelling Brit. As Churchill said when he discovered one of his cabinet had been arrested for being found in flagrante on Hampstead Heath in the middle of winter - 'Ah, makes you proud to be British, doesn't it'
I never really thought about any of the problems being "Thailand Specific" Somtam, but i guess your right. Most of this stuff happens anywhere...
For example in the second episode, the only really Thailand specific thing is the Ladyboy incident.
What this series does do is hopefully drum into peoples heads that they are not invincible when they are on holidays! Phuket just has to be the worst with all the drunk louts running around everywhere thinking they are god. This goes for both young people and old.
#14 furneburner has been a member since 5/9/2009. Posts: 180
Jamie's phuket article blog IS excellent, i hope they are keen on cleaning up the island, and not just "saving face"
#15 furneburner has been a member since 5/9/2009. Posts: 180
"without training and education the only safe thing is to ban them all together - it's not just because I don't like them."
If the rules aren't being followed now, then a ban won't be either. So said suggestion isn't of any use either. Technically prostitution is illegal in Thailand...
Banning things because people don't like them is the easy way out. And, of course, as reflected in comments here, it shows how some hold the values of other in contempt. There isn't the slightest regard for people who enjoy jet skis - indeed all the comments directed at them were of disdain. This is ecactly like the VV thread. Banning something is an act that's conducted when those who enjoy that which is being banned are simply not considered.
#16 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
"There isn't the slightest regard for people who enjoy jet skis - indeed all the comments directed at them were of disdain. "
This is because many of the pricks showing off on jetskis have not got the slightest regard for other people in the water. People have been killed and very seriously injured in jetski accidents in Phuket and elsewhere in Thailand. If jetski riders kill and maim themselves that's just fine by me, but not if their fun puts other people's lives at risk. Period.
I was on holiday in Kenya for a couple of weeks in the Autumn of 2002, Diani beach, and every day the sky was filled colourful parachutes... wealthy tourists doing jumps from planes onto the beach for kicks.
One day the tide was high and there was very little beach for them to land on. Nevertheless they jumped, landing amongst the sunbathing tourists and locals. I saw one of the parachutists hit a Kenyan child as he was landed and I ran to see if she was OK. She wasn't, she was dead. Her head had been smashed against a sea wall when the parachutist hit her and her brains were spilling out on the sand.
The guy (or more likely his insurance company) no doubt had to pay compensation to the family but he showed absolutely no remorse for what had happened. He was overheard complaining about a jump being cancelled next day because the funeral was in progress. "I'm on holiday and I paid for that jump" was his attitude.
A week or so later a bomb went off in a nearby hotel, blamed on Al Qaeda of course. Who knows, all I know is that local indignation at the tourist's attitude was very intense at the time.
Madmac, not everyone is asking for a blanket ban -- though it's clear most of the posters are not jetski fans.
Jetskiing -- like activities such as parasailing, waterskiing and even surfing, indirectly affects others -- be they people looking for quite time on the beach, swimmers, snorkellers and divers etc. Because of this it needs to be regulated in an equitable fashion and the regulations should be enforced.
The problem is, that in most cases, the laws are not being enforced -- and so, justifiably, people get frustrated. In principle it's no different really, to sitting down in a non-smoking restaurant and having a cigar smoker light up next to you and the staff not intervene.
The jetskiing scam has been going on for as long as I remember on Phuket and for about the same length of time the government has been saying it is going to crack down on them... I'm not holding my breath for any changes.
"Jetskiing -- like activities such as parasailing, waterskiing and even surfing, indirectly affects others -- be they people looking for quite time on the beach, swimmers, snorkellers and divers etc. Because of this it needs to be regulated in an equitable fashion and the regulations should be enforced."
This is my point. I have no problem with these things being regulated, that's perfectly reasonable. But again, note the contempt displayed here not only of jet skis but of people who enjoyed them. The vast majority of people who use them just enjoy them - they are not aiming at putting other people in danger.
"I was on holiday in Kenya for a couple of weeks in the Autumn of 2002, Diani beach, and every day the sky was filled colourful parachutes... wealthy tourists doing jumps from planes onto the beach for kicks.
One day the tide was high and there was very little beach for them to land on. Nevertheless they jumped, landing amongst the sunbathing tourists and locals. I saw one of the parachutists hit a Kenyan child as he was landed and I ran to see if she was OK. She wasn't, she was dead. Her head had been smashed against a sea wall when the parachutist hit her and her brains were spilling out on the sand."
This is, of course, tragic. Anyone who has parachuted (like I have) knows that the drop zone should be clear prior to the drop. Clear means no one is on it. Both the company and the jumpers have a responsibility there. That doesn't mean Kenya should ban parachuting however - does it? Parachuting onto DZs with people should be banned everywhere.
Basically what I am seeing here is a contempt for people who enjoy a "fun" kind of vacation - drunk, noisy, boisterous and want to let their hair down. I get a sense of people thinking that since they are more interested in "culture" that makes them more sophisticated (note what they mean is superior).
#19 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Finally got around to watching this - thanks somtam for posting it.
Moral of the story:
1. Don't deal drugs unless you understand the consequences (and this goes for any country - sentences are tougher in Singapore, Malaysia, and many other places).
2. Don't possess even the smallest amount of weed while in Thailand unless you have access to at least US$4000 quickly (and are willing to part with that for your freedom).
3. Don't do stupid things while cocked, hammered, smashed, piss ass wasted, lit up on yabba or otherwise, unless you want to get robbed, scammed or clocked over the head (plainly known as common sense).
And to the boyfriend who got his girl stuck in prison - stop whining about how you need to rest and start calling every frickin relative, friend, high school classmate and loan shark you know, raise the cash and get it wired to Phuket, IMMEDIATELY. Now that was a sad display.
Lol, Jetski's are GREAT fun.
Should we ban motorbikes too? Aren't they (especially in SE Asia) just as dangerous,..even more so! What tosh.
The part with the marines actually made the papers here in the UK before it was aired on TV. Apparently they were about to "sort out" the lovely JJ had the older guy not come along - personally some of them looked scared stiff.
'Should we ban motorbikes too? Aren't they (especially in SE Asia) just as dangerous,..even more so!'
Sparts I think you missed my point and that of others. Motorbike riding is fun and are mostly a danger to themselves, (unless of course you decide to ride along the pavement and drive into groups of people or otherwise behavour totally recklessly in which case there are laws, even in Thailand, to penalise you).
Jetsklis, as currently used, are a serious danger to other people as they are operated with the total absence of any rules & regulations (never mind enforcement). The original decision to ban them came from the local Thai government officals as they only way to deal with the problem and was orignally to be phased in over a few years. Unfortuneatly the jetski 'mafia', managed to kick the decision into touch.
It is a shame you are unable to appriecaite the difference between having fun and endangering others, and I would prefer you not to say my ideas are 'tosh' - let's try and keep this board useful to others without having to worry about throwing insults around.
Motorbikes and cars are most certainly a danger to others - especially cars. An acquaintence of mine was just killed here last month when he was hit by a Thai driver who was driving in a reckless manner.
The fact of the matter is you don't respect the activity - and therefore don't care if others do. This comes down to a lack of respect for others. You see the hazard that some create and decide that nobody should be able to participate. When I used to vacation on a lake in Vermont they had speed boats with water skis on the lake. Older, more sedate people wanted them banned, because they didn't like the noise. Basically they didn't care if other people enjoyed them.
Now I agree that the activity needs to be better regulated, but THAT is what people should be pushing for. Reasonable and enforceable regulation. If that can't be achieved, then dive elsewhere. Because they are not going to be banned anyway, and you know it.
#24 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
The fact of the matter is you don't respect the activity - and therefore don't care if others do.
Madmac, do you now your counterpart any better than from some posts? I get the impression you project your own anger about something onto him - to imply he "lacks respect of others" is a bit a long shot from what he posted here, and a tad too aggressive imho.
If (regulations) can't be achieved, then dive elsewhere.
That is basically what you are accusing others of, not respecting an activity not important to yourself. Just exchange diving with jet-skying...
To find a solution for conflicting interests can be difficult if the outcome should be "fair" and acceptable for both sides. In this case, the conflict has one important dimension: safety. If an activity is dangerous for others (or to a lesser extent for the people themselves), safety takes priority over the right of enjoyment. Common sense, no? On top of that, one has to think about how many poeple enjoy swimming/diving vs how many people want to jet-ski on a given spot.
Personally I have no strong opinions about jet-skies, I can only remember one beach in Cambodia that had jet-skies (the 8-year old locals trashing around with them made me leave the water, though). The optimal resolution imho would be a regulation that allows jet-skies in a dedicated area, separated from swimmers/divers. If many people dive in a spot, I would decide against jet-skies there (see above).
Now, the thing with banning: if regulation fails, a ban could be easier to enforce and therefore be more successful. This would be the only reason for a ban, and this does not have to be nation-wide... But for beaches were there is a problem.
And, becuase you mentioned it before: they did not try to ban Paintball in Germany because Germans "do not like it", they are many people that do. After a kid killed random people on the street, politicians trying to look responsive put forward the ban of Paintball. This is of course ridiculous, but they did not want to face the lobby power of sport shooters... anyway, they had to row back after everyone basically told them that banning Paintball does not make any sense at all. It will of course not get banned.
After watching the unedited segments of the program, it is hard to believe them to be staged. Maybe the producer was a bit "too good" after all? Impressive how much the editing ways in... not for the good, in this case.
Still, if you have a camera present this alone will alter how the people act. Funny to watch how they play out authority (jj vs the bitish guys, the military guy vs jj). What I do not get is what the older marine is doing there exactly. Also I find it strange that jj would call the producer to present this particular case, with the stated goal to show that it is not a rip-off and people are indeed damaging the jet skies sometimes.
Anyway, most criticism voiced here stays valid if it was not staged.
#25 hokasch has been a member since 24/12/2008. Posts: 45
Look at these quotes from Mike:
"Firstly, anyone who rents a jetski deserves to be ripped off..."
"The morons who rent them mostly charge around a few meters from the shore, rather than away from other users, showing a total disregard for other people in the water. There have also been a few deaths in Phuket, (fortunately the people on the jetski, rather than others)."
"We, (divers), have surface floats and flags to indicate our presence, unfortunelty it is not unknown for the morons to use these for salam practice!!!!"
Call me funny, but those phrases did not strike me as being respectful. Must be me.
#26 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Right, calling someone a moron is not good tone either.
He seems to be upset about the behavior of jet skiers (disregard of others/disregard of safety measures). He states to be a dive instructor in Phuket, so I believe he is talking about own experiences there.
The point was, you are ranting about people not respecting an activity simply because they do not like it themselves, consider themselves superior, do not want others to enjoy something they find not enjoyable themselves. I can not see how you get that impression from quoted statements.
Call me funny, but to me it looks more like he got upset about people not respecting his own enjoyment, and more important: his safety.
#27 hokasch has been a member since 24/12/2008. Posts: 45
"The point was, you are ranting about people not respecting an activity simply because they do not like it themselves, consider themselves superior, do not want others to enjoy something they find not enjoyable themselves. I can not see how you get that impression from quoted statements."
You will note, Hokasch, that I also refered to the VV thread. There I saw similar posts, all describing the partying set in disparaging terms.
Then, of course, we have the hate Pattaya set (these people really hate Thailand - they just don't know it).
In each case what we see is a certain snobbishness which considers the activities of others as boorish, igorant... you name it.
Perhaps Mike should have said "Look, it is clear that the Jet Skis and other water recreation aren't really compatable, and they should only be permitted in place "X" while other water recreation is in permitted in place "Y". But he didn't say that. Instead he called everyone who enjoys jetskis morons, that they deserved to be ripped off, and that fortunately all the jetski linked fatalities were only jetski operators.
"Call me funny, but to me it looks more like he got upset about people not respecting his own enjoyment, and more important: his safety."
There was both - the safety issue is legitimate. But he goes from safety to morons to banning pretty quickly.
#28 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Mikes opinion is skewed by the fact that jetski's inconvenience him going about his work - just my take on things.
This is Thailand, Jetski's will not be banned. And there are far from a few moron's using them. I'd expect a large percentage of every beach will have a go at somepoint in their vacation.
Perhaps Mike should engage in dialogue with the owners - I'm sure they'd be more than happy to instruct any business to take the jetskis offshore a bit.
Well the one leverage point he has is that if one of his divers gets killed by their jetskis, there is a good chance that it's going to cost them a lot of money because of their negligence. Thais understand money. This is good motivation. A Thai recently killed an acquaintance of mine here (a foreigner), police found him guilty of negligence (not as serious as it would be back home - nobody goes to jail over that here) and he's looking at a high six figure payout - which in his case means selling his truck. If Mike tells warns these guys, and submits a record of such warning to local authorities - the embassy of the dead person (s) is going to come down on them like a ton bricks. That's attention nobody wants. It's the one approach that might work.
#30 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
I shouldn't have called them 'morons'. I apologize.
They are just selfish, high spirited people who do not understand their actions........... (foams at the mouth and kicks the computer!)
Anyway this is my last post on the subject as agreement over this issue isn't going to happen.
The latest news is, apparently, that the jet ski are going to restricted to 219 (still a large number) and all will have insurance within 45 days.
I don't see way insurance is the big issue as they only have to stop ripping people off and the insurance issue goes away. If you damage the thing, as with a motorbike on which there is no insurance either, you expect to pay a 'correct and fair price' to fix it. If they stopped overcharging they wouldn't need insurance.
Anyway. goodnight on this one!
"I shouldn't have called them 'morons'. I apologize.
They are just selfish, high spirited people who do not understand their actions"
Well that was heartfelt!!!
#32 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957
Why do you think this is staged?
Seems real almost to the point of cliche to me.
This is shot in South East Asia remember.
#33 Mike_V has been a member since 2/11/2009. Posts: 11
I watched about 3 episodes and I had to stop, it was driving me mad, shame cus it could have been good.
Not too much seemed staged after the first episode, but the whole thing was shot for people with incredibly short attention spans - recaps every 30 seconds, and annoying stock shots used again and again and again.
Covered a lot of the same ground too, apart from the Samui plane crash and the girl locked up on Pha Ngan, it was almost all about Pattaya
Typical Bravo documentary. Good idea though, and if it does make a few people realise they cant just go to Thailand and get away with doing anything they want, then good for Thailand and good that it could stop some people getting locked up.
As a Brit myself (now living in NZ), I get embarrassed by the 'lager lout' mentality of some Brititsh tourists in Thailand. However, as someone who has been travelling to SE Asia since 1978, I can tell you that I've met my fair share of dreadful behaviour from tourists/travellers of other nations too. So I actually found idreamofdurian's statement "Obnoxious tourists (disproportionately British) flouting the law" statement quite offensive. To make such a derogatory and sweeping statement is unfair and quite probably statistically incorrect.
#35 scottyheather has been a member since 30/3/2008. Posts: 89
There is good and bad with every ethnic group. There is nothing in British culture that makes them particularly bad tourists.
#36 MADMAC has been a member since 6/6/2009. Posts: 6,957